8 No. 397, 4.5.2012 …… 如是说 Thus Spake… Prof. Cheung Mui-ching Fanny, Chairperson, Department of Psychology 心理学系系主任张妙清教授 为什么会对心理学感兴趣？ 小学的时候，我在观察到别人的行为时，就常会想他们有 什么思想？为什么会这样想？为什么有这样的反应？会有什 么感受？而心理学是有系统和以科学方法认识人的行为的 学科，后来发现美国中学有心理学课程，所以在香港没念完 中学就去了美国。其中一个原因就是给心理学课程所吸引。 为何在19 9 6至9 9年暂离教职，担任平等机会委员会 （平机会）创会主席？ 我那时是社会科学院院长，也曾犹豫应否离职，但我在社会 上一直推动妇女权益发展，另外也许没有太多人留意的是， 我同时也推动残疾人士，特别是精神病康复者的服务和权 益的发展，这些经验刚好配合平机会在那时推动制订这两 方面的条例，就是《性别歧视条例》和《残疾歧视条例》。 我当时觉得，以往自己做了这么多工夫，希望社会在这两方 面有所进步，所以在它渐见成果时，暂离教职，为社会推动 这方面的努力，是很值得的。 中大女教授不少，管理层的女性却不多，对此你有何看法？ 中大和全香港的情况差不多，在许多机构里面，女性在领 导阶层占很少数。为什么会有这样的现象？这就要看历史 发展。女性受基础教育和高等教育，然后出任一些专业职 位，再晋升领导阶层，是要有一段过程。香港女性受教育 的转变是由70年代后期开始，即1978年实施九年免费义务 教育，至90年代初大学学位增加，女学生的比例逐渐增加， 男女大学生的比例到2000年左右开始逆转，女生开始占多 数。我加入中大时，女教师人数不用双手可数尽。时至今日， 你会看到中层的女性多了很多，这需要慢慢地逐级去演变， 但还需有敏锐的支持和制度去培植女性领导人才。 出色的女性领导须要牺牲家庭吗？ 现在家庭的两性分工，还是偏重于传统观念，女性通常要 负担家庭照顾者的主要角色，而社会常将事业与家庭两极 化，使得年轻女性以为只能二择其一。我的书《登上巅峰的 女性》探讨杰出女性领导者，她们并非要放弃家庭，而是可 以内外兼顾。但须要考虑处事的先后次序，采用不同的策 略，懂得善用时间，甚至寻找不同的社会资源帮忙，当然配 偶合作亦很重要。你会看到很多成功女性，都会感激她们 的配偶认同两性平等的观念，支持她们发挥所长。 可否介绍一下你制订的跨文化（中国人）个性量表（CPAI)？ 心理学常会使用一些有科学根据的测量工具，帮助我们客 观分析、检视或者形容人的某些特征，将人分类。个性测量 除了在临床评估方面能协助诊断和治疗外，还可在工业及 组织管理方面用于选拔、培训、晋升人才，或帮助员工在考 虑事业发展时加深对自己的认识，用途很广泛。过去心理学 测量工具多是借用西方制订的，我刚回香港时就翻译了有 名的明尼苏达个性测量表（MMPI）。后来我与中国科学院 心理研究所合作把MMPI中文版本标准化。我们之后再想， 何不自己发展一套适合华人社会文化的个性测量表呢？所 以就以心理科学的测量方法，结合本土文化的个性特征，发 展出CPAI。 我们在研究中发现了有些个性特征是文化共通的，但有一 个特征是过去西方心理学工具比较忽略的，就是人际关系 的角度，西方心理学比较着重个人主义，中国人则很着重从 人与人之间的关系去反映他的性格，例如和谐、人情，在过 往西方的量表里不大着重。而CPAI的跨文化研究显示，这些 特征并非局限于华人文化，在其他着重集体主义的文化也 非常切合。 美国心理学会今年向你颁发「推动心理学国际发展杰出贡 献奖」，你有何感受？ 我希望能令国际心理学界更认识我的工作背后的一些理 念。藉着这次获奖，推动他们更加认识文化，包括中国文化， 对心理学的影响。中大心理学系很强调我们是中国人在心理 学界的声音。中国人占世界人口的五分之一，中国人的文化 经验，中国人的心理学，对主流心理学应该有更大影响。 Why were you interested in psychology? When I was in primary school, I liked to observe people’s behaviour, wondering what they thought, what they felt and why they had such reactions. Psychology is a scientific field that systematically investigates human behaviour. I was interested in it and learned that American high schools had psychology courses. That’s why I went to the US before I finished my secondary school education in Hong Kong. Why did you choose to leave the University to serve as the founding chairperson of the Equal Opportunities Commission (EOC) from 1996 to 1999? I was the Dean of Social Science at that time. I did hesitate over leaving that position. I had been advancing women’s rights. But not many people knew that I had also been active in promoting the services for and the rights of people with disabilities, especially those of ex-mentally ill persons. At that time the EOC was set up to implement the Sex Discrimination Ordinance and the Disability Discrimination Ordinance. I felt obligated to help with the implementation of these two ordinances at a nascent stage. So I decided to take leave from my academic career. I think it was worth it. CUHK has many female professors. But we don’t have many women in senior management. What do you think of this? CUHK is no different from other corporations in Hong Kong, in which women leaders are rare. Why? You have to put it in its historical context. It is a long process of social change that involves education, especially higher education, for women, their career advancement, and their ascension to senior positions. In Hong Kong, it was not until the late 1970s that the majority of women began to receive proper education after the introduction of nine- year compulsory education. By the early 1990s, with the expansion of higher education, the numbers of female university students began to increase. By around 2000, their numbers began to exceed those of male students. When I first joined CUHK, I could count on two hands the number of female teachers on campus. Now you can see that there have been more and more women in middle management of their professions. Social change takes time. But it’s also important that we have sensitive support and systems for mentoring women leaders. Is it inevitable that women can only achieve success in their careers at the expense of their families? Now the gender division of labour is still very traditional— the role of family caregiver is chiefly played by women. The dichotomy between career and family is still perceived to be true by many in our society and many young women think that they’re mutually exclusive. My book Women at the Top is a study of outstanding women leaders. Instead of foregoing a happy family for a successful career, they combine work and family life. To achieve this, you have to set priorities, adopt innovative strategies, make good use of time, and enlist support of social resources. Of course, spousal cooperation is very important. Many successful women leaders are grateful to their husbands for embracing gender equality. What is your Cross-cultural (Chinese) Personality Assessment Inventory (CPAI) meant for? In psychology, we often use certain scientifically-based assessment tools to evaluate, analyse or describe a person’s personality and categorize them. Personality assessment tools are not only useful for diagnosis and treatment in clinical practice, they can also be used in the organizational context to recruit, train and promote employees, or to help employees get a better understanding of themselves in their career development. In the past, many of these tools originated in the West. When I returned to Hong Kong, I translated the famous Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) and worked in collaboration with the Institute of Psychology of the Chinese Academy of Sciences to standardize the Chinese version of the MMPI. After that we thought: why don’t we develop a personality assessment that is culturally relevant to the Chinese society? That’s why we developed the CPAI by combining scientific assessment methods of psychology and personality traits of Chinese. In our study we found that certain personality traits are universal across cultures. But there is a dimension that had been neglected by Western assessment tools— interpersonal relatedness. Western psychology is more individualistic in nature while the Chinese personality is characterized by elements of the interpersonal dimension, such as harmony, relationship orientation, which are not highlighted in Western assessment tools. The cross-cultural studies relating to the CPAI show that these elements are not only specific to Chinese culture, but also relevant to other cultures characterized by collectivism. You’ve been selected as the co-recipient of the American Psychological Association 2012 Award for Distinguished Contributions to the International Advancement of Psychology. How do you feel about it? I hope that it would help international psychologists to better understand the notions underlying my work and the relevance of cultures, including Chinese culture, to psychology. Our department is committed to promoting a distinctive Chinese voice in psychology. The Chinese make up one-fifth of the world’s population. The cultural experience of the Chinese and Chinese psychology should have a bigger influence on mainstream psychology.